Unpacking & Embracing Gender Equity (Encore) // with Annie Warshaw

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:00:00

Hello, everyone. So as you know, March is women's history month. And March 8th is international women's day. The theme for 2023 is embrace equity. This immediately made me think of an early episode I did with Annie Warshaw, who is a professor of gender studies at Roosevelt university. And founder of mission propel. I really listened to it and really took away many things that either I had forgotten. Or was hearing in a different way so i decided to rehear it and you'll be hearing that shortly Before we go there. I wanted to call out a distinction that the international women's day organization. Thanks. It's helpful to understand as we think about embracing equity. And that is the difference between equality and equity. Equality means each individual or group of people is given the same resources or opportunities. Equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances. And gives the exact resources and opportunities needed. To reach an equal outcome. One thing that really helped me understand the distinction that you may have seen. Is this cartoon of individuals trying to look over a fence there's basically two. Two sides to the cartoon. One is labeled equality and one is labeled equity. On the equality side, you see three. Individuals of different Heights, all trying to see over a fence, there's a tall, a middle-sized one and a shorter one. Person. And they're all standing on the same sized box. Unfortunately, that means that the shortest person still can't see over the fence, the middle-sized person can just peek over and the tall person can see over easily. On the other side of the cartoon it's labeled equity. And there the tall person has a box that allows them to see over the fence. The middle-sized person has a taller box that also allows them to see over the fence and the shorter person has the tallest box. So all three individuals can see easily over the fence with different sized boxes. That really drove the point home. So equality might mean giving people equal opportunities. But equity looks like people having the same experience and, and being able to engage in those opportunities in a meaningful way. It really speaks to meeting people where they are and embracing differences. I hope this will inspire you to think about equity. And how you might embrace equity going forward. Welcome to know them. Be them, raise them a show to help moms stay informed and inspired so they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to. I'm your host Carmelita to join me each week. As I cover a variety of topics, all designed to support, mindful and growth oriented moms navigating these crucial years, I'll talk to experts, moms who've been there and read a curated selection of articles with the author's permission and drop in with my own thoughts on it. This week's episode features Annie Warshaw co-founder of mission propel and a gender justice professor at Roosevelt university in our chat. She shares the evolution of mission propel breaks down what gender equity is, explains how we can be aware of it and encourage it, and even how to reframe our beliefs about old school etiquette. So we can foster more equitable gender roles. And if you're hearing some scratching noises, it's not. It's me, it was a new podcast or misstep my ears just weren't attuned to the noises when we were recording. I think they're mostly in the first couple of minutes, but stick with me. I promise there are some great takeaways.

Annie Warshaw: 00:03:42

uh, so thank you so much for having me on, I really admire what you're trying to do and just appreciate it. So I have two companies prior to the pandemic mission. Propels mission was to empower girls, to be advocates for themselves within their classrooms and communities and for boys to be allies towards girls for the K through five groups of children. And the way that we were doing that was we were working with in schools. Using original storybooks that myself and my business partner wrote, and we paired it with yoga. We have served over 10,000 students in the Chicago land area. And then the pandemic hit and then we had no business because the school is closed. So we pivoted and quite frankly, we were kind of like, you know, we had been running this business for seven years and we're like, we would like a little bit of a change here. That business, is now youth Alliance, yoga for short gay that is still functioning in schools. Mission propel is now the name for our new business. And what we do is work to keep moms from dropping out of the workplace. We have a two-pronged approach. We work with corporations and nonprofits and we coach their employees on how to create a sustainable loving home. So we work on relationships. We work on, Actually creating a sustainable schedule, having an equitable partnership. And then we do policy review of the workplace and we say, look, we took care of this. Person's home now. Here's what you need to shift work-wise and culture-wise, if you want this person to actually stay and feel invested in your company, love it. So those. Yeah. So that has been going really well. It's been really interesting and it's really exciting for Jill and I, my business partner, because we're getting to do something that we also love. Like we loved working with kids, but now we're getting to teach parents all of the skills that we've acquired over the past, um, 15 years. And it's been really fun. It really

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:05:41

kind of. Some of my thinking about, showing up as a mom for our daughters, like, it's, you, you both have to empower your daughter, but you also have to model these behaviors and structures that you want the future to look like. So you kind of address that through both of those angles, like the work you're doing now, establishing. Things should look like at home and then also at work, I think it's phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. A good

Annie Warshaw: 00:06:06

chunk of what we do when we're talking about like parenting and building emotional intelligence and that sort of stuff. It's really all around like what we as parents are doing and how we're modeling that, you know, we often talk about, especially when we're working with dad, clients, or moms who like are going to go then talk to their partner. If they're male identified, you know, the skillset versus. Value set in how we teach skills, verse values. Um, so this idea of like, you need to listen to me because I said so like is not teaching any skill it's and it's not teaching any value either. Right? Like the idea is, well, I'm teaching you respect, you don't teach respect. You show respect, you model respect. You talk about respect, but by having your kid brush their teeth, because you said they need to brush their teeth is not teaching them. You're in that circumstance, what your objective is, is to teach them a skill, which is to brush their teeth. So the mechanism of which you get them to do that can vary. And, you know, we talked about those strategies. Walking away being like, you have to do this. Cause I said, so like, isn't going to get you the outcome that you're intending. And so when we think about like modeling in that particular circumstance, it's really about showing respect and how do you listen? Why don't they want to brush their teeth? Like how can you provide them the structure and routine and consistency, versus. I'm doing this cause, or you're going to do this cause I told you so, which teaches? No. Right. So

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:07:29

it's something that I, I know I grew up with, um, you know, love my parents. We get along great now, but there are definitely were definitely times growing up where I'm like, why am I doing. So I love that. You're kind of getting at that, like, it's not enough to just say yeah.

Annie Warshaw: 00:07:44

I mean, because I had the same feeling and like, I mean, most people say that stuff because they're reverting to like what their parents taught them, but teaching our kids, for example, how to advocate for themselves. If they do ask a question and you just shut them down, like, well, I told him, so I told you so like, The opposite of what you're trying to foster within them. Right? You want them to question that and if they are questioning things and you're shooting them, then down, then they're going to say, well, I should stop questioning things. Or my voice is not valid as a space, so I'm not going to use it. Um, and so like, if we want them doing that as a school, we need to be also like offering that at home

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:08:22

one hot. I love what you're saying. Run a hundred percent agree.

Annie Warshaw: 00:08:28

So kind of.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:08:30

Jumping up to like a 35,000 foot view. Um, can you tell our listeners how you define gender equity and why it's important?

Annie Warshaw: 00:08:39

Yeah. Um, I guess I should say so when I'm not doing those two companies, I teach gender justice, which is like the new women in gender studies at Roosevelt university. Um, so like, everything I do is through this lens of gender. So I have, Two sons and a daughter and it goes, boy, girl, boy. And I will tell you like, this conversation is very much obviously centered around girls, but once I had a son, I was like, oh my God, my world is in girls. I, what am I going to do with this person? And I became super passionate and I've done so much reading about like toxic masculinity and, I feel like if my, there are so many supports in this world for girls, and that is not to say that we have gotten anywhere near where we need to for women. But we, as a culture, I think at least understand that we need to provide programming for girls and you know, that kind of stuff. And we know, you know, you could go buy a girl power shirt. We have not done nearly as much for boys in terms of. Teaching them how to be emotionally literate so that they can be real allies and show up for girls not to be pessimistic, but like, if we're not doing that, we're never going to reach equity in the way that we want to. Uh, you know, so my. There's like three things that if my sons do, I will feel like an accomplished parent first being voting, like that's hands down, they have to do that. And then the other one is like, I never want them to be a burden to whoever their partner is in terms of cleaning like this whole, like women meant to load, you know, all that, like that's skills that have been taught. I want them to be in a partnership and be able to look in a kitchen, look around. Oh, look, that thing was left out. I'm going to go put it away without being told. That is how I will say I love it. You know, that's not fair to their, if they have a female partner not fair to them. And then that that's like a snowball effect of like all these other things that will be a burden to her, which will keep her from progressing perhaps in her own life, in the way that she wants professionally. Yeah. And then the other piece is, you know, obviously they have to be a good, outstanding human who's like, can have, I want them to be able to have like real strong relationships with other men where they can talk about their feelings. So for the boys, that's like my goal. Um, those are wonderful goals. Yeah. I mean, and we all benefit from that. Um, but for the, the question about gender equity, I mean, Within to that, right? Like it's not just about women advancing it's about men being able to be fully realized humans, which ultimately benefits women. I mean, obviously there's huge links between like toxic masculinity and violence against women or the male gaze and how women view their own bodies. But for me, ultimately, you know, gender equity is about getting rid of patriarchy and maybe. Not just opportunity, but everyone, no matter their gender identity is treated with fairness and kindness, and doesn't matter who they are and are afforded the same opportunities and can live freely in the same way. So I can kind of

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:11:46

curious, like as parents and looking at schools or programs or environments, are there things that we should look for? That are characteristics of a place that values gender equity

Annie Warshaw: 00:11:58

From a high level sort of, you know, district-wide, I think a lot of schools or districts are moving towards like an equity framework. But oftentimes I think that that's still steeped in either racial diversity or ethnic diversity. And I don't see as much cognitive awareness around gender. So something as simple as like, what kind of language are they using? Is it like gender inclusive? Um, do they have a gender inclusive bathroom? And this to me is in the elementary school that should exist. And if they don't, what is their plan for that?

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:12:32

I just want to interject that. I would love that. I think, I mean, I feel like everyone's learning as we go along, but I, I witnessed so many, elementary school students that are clearly on a journey and having a gender neutral bathroom, which would just make it easier. And I, and I think more respectful to them. Yeah.

Annie Warshaw: 00:12:50

Cause I do feel like people, I starting at least in middle school, but I have not really seen it in elementary schools. I agree. I mean, through the old mission, probably. Yeah. I mean, we've had, we had so many non-binary students, uh, you know, starting in kindergarten. Um, In terms of what a classroom, I mean, the books that are selected. Oh yeah. Um, you know, and, and if your teacher might not be. They might be very well-intentioned it just like not, no, like, I think as a parent, like being like, oh, I heard about this really great book that has a gender fluid character or something like that. because you know, I can think about like my son's preschool teachers and they're lovely people, but I know they're not like, let me go find them was LGBTQ friendly books, but I know about all those books. So I'm more than happy to be like, this is a really funny book or whatever. so I think the converse and then also, you know, the. History is being framed, how they're talking about different events. Like I know there's a lot of debate going on around critical race theory. I'm a trained historian. And for me, I care, like I always, study like social history. So like, what were everyday women doing during this time period or whatever it is. So, you know, a history teacher. Does not have to integrate or implement, sorry. Rather like a specific curriculum. They can talk about like ordinary people and what they were doing and give more perspective on, That there were other people in history besides white men, um, without it being controversial, honestly. so, you know, when you're talking about like, what were women's roles during the American revolution or whatever, it's not a controversial thing, but, um, so yeah, so there are many things teachers could be doing.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:14:36

Absolutely. So I'm curious what, as we're thinking about. the ways our environments can support or hinder our efforts. How do you feel about like my I'm a big manners person, but related to that, my parents were always like, might to my brother, you open doors for women. to me, uh, when you're on a date, you should expect the guy to pay. Um, so how do we reconcile? Kind of manners and etiquette and, and the potential for reinforcing in equitable roles.

Annie Warshaw: 00:15:10

I mean, to me, it's about, you should be opening the door for anyone because it's the kind of thing to do. Like, it doesn't matter who they are and if you don't want to open the door, you're not opening the door for anyone. So to me, it's more about like, if you're. Teaching those values from day. One about like, here are manners that we treat all people with. It's not going to be a conversation ever around like, well, you're a boy, so you need to open the door for a girl. I see someone who needs a door open. I opened the door for them. Like I don't assess. Oh, well, that man has strong arms. He couldn't do it himself.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:15:44

You know, I'm going to wait for this man to open the door for me. Like, yeah,

Annie Warshaw: 00:15:48

no you do. I, when I have a stroller, when people open a door for me yeah. Because that's the right thing to do. You see a person struggling, you help them, you know? So like that's the values. And I think those are the conversations you can have with your kids of like, what are general values that you believe in as a family? And how do you show up for other people using them? We, as a family, have a family values that like we talk about and all decisions are made based off of. And that, you know, I think when you have something to go back to in that way, then you can, when you're having those harder conversations, you can talk about like, well, does it align with this? What does this look like in real life? and you can talk about that, especially, you know, your kids are old enough where you can have that actual conversation. Whereas with toddlers, I'm going to be talking about. Hey, I'm carrying this really heavy thing and I can't hold the door right up and you hold it for me to help them learn. Like, this is what you do to help other people out.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:16:48

Right. Family values. We were just talking about kind of using our next big family dinner to each contribute, different things that we want to be on the family values list. So hearing you say that. Synchronicity like the universe telling me, or they, I

Annie Warshaw: 00:17:04

love that you're going to have them involved. Right. Because then they can feel more ownership over.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: 00:17:09

Yeah. Yeah. So, so much good stuff. For some reason, one aha moment for me, one point that really resonated was that in addition to empowering our daughters, we need to support emotional literacy and boys and teach them how to be allies. I know this on a gut level, like I know how important it is and how good it feels to have a supportive partner, but how is the mass media, retail culture, our systems and structures, et cetera, really encouraging that. I'm optimistic that a lot of today's parents have this on their radar. It actually reminded me of my friend's son. She has three daughters and one son. And when she found a hair rubber band in his backpack and asked him about it, he said he carried it just in case one of the girls, his sisters needed it. How amazing is that? And think how much easier, safer and fairer would the world be for girls and women, if that kind of empathy and thoughtfulness was more widespread. So to recap the key takeaways from my chat with Annie, number one, we want our kids to question us. It may sometimes feel like disagreement or maybe even rebelliousness, but if we want our kids to thoughtfully question things outside of the home, whether it's school, their activities in the workplace and in society, they have to feel safe asking questions of you. If we shut them down, they'll learn that their voices aren't valid. Number two. If we want gender equity, we need to not just support girls, but support boys and becoming emotionally literate so they can become allies and are aware of alternatives to messages of toxic masculinity. Gender equity is not just about women advancing it's about men. Being able to be fully realized humans it's about everyone, no matter their gender identity, being treated with fairness and kindness, having the same opportunities and being able to live freely. Number four. Being aware of gender equity means noticing the language that's used the presence of gender neutral options, like bathrooms and the books and media that are available to us and our kids. And number five, come up with a list of family values that you and your family can use to help guide decisions and actions, things like kindness, fairness. Applying these to everyone, regardless of gender essentially takes a gender neutral approach and that helps foster equitable relations. To learn more about mission propel and the gender equity consulting and coaching they provide. You can visit mission propel.com. That's mission P R O P E L L e.com or follow mission underscore propel again. That's P R O P E L L E on Instagram. And for information about youth Alliance yoga, go to youth Alliance, yoga.com. These links are in the show notes. I hope you found some helpful information in today's episode. I want to applaud you and say how much I appreciate you for taking the time to listen. If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe or follow, tell a friend and feel free to leave a review in apple podcasts. You can also follow at no be raised them on Instagram for quotes from wise women advice and more, and like our Facebook page, just look up, know them, be them, raise them and you'll find it. Thank you and here's to strong women. May we know them? May we be them? And may we raise them?