Rethinking Creativity, Stepping In & Stepping Back // with Melissa Ohlman-Roberge (Mom Who's Been There)

[00:00:00] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: creativity is more important than knowledge Albert Einstein. And the reason is without creativity without pre to thinking, without problem solving, without being able to collaborate and see other people's points of view, the knowledge really is. Bits of information, you know, you won't know how to use them.

[00:00:25] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Welcome to know them. Be them, raise them a show for moms, raising tween and teen girls to help them stay informed and inspired so they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to with most episodes running about 20 minutes or less. I'm your host caramel. So when curating the content for this podcast, it was important to me to highlight, not just thought leaders, experts, and facts, but the experience and wisdom that lives within women, who've raised their daughters and seen them into adulthood.

[00:00:56] There's this notion that everyone's life is worthy of an autobiography and in a similar vein, I think every mom has wisdom. That's worth sharing. My guest this week. And the second featured mom who's been there is Melissa Almon, Roberto. Melissa calls herself a creative instigator who thrives on the energy of the creative process as it unfolds in real time, she's worked as a theater artist and educator for more than 30 years.

[00:01:25] Having started as an actress and singer, but landing in directing, she's created over a hundred productions from Connecticut to North Carolina, for professional community and educational organizations. In addition, Melissa is a visual artist focusing on mixed media collage. Lately she's been framing her creative projects, initiatives and collaborations under the umbrella, M O R creates based in North Carolina.

[00:01:53] Melissa's goal is to use community conversation and connection to help people understand and define creativity on their own terms. Melissa is the mom of three daughters, as well as their dog, Zoe and his partner to husband, Kevin who dabbles on the stage when not running his staffing. Here's our conversation,

[00:02:17] Melissa. I just want to reiterate how excited I am to have you on as a mom, who's been there, you have three daughters in their twenties, and you're a remarkable person. You have so much light and energy. I'd love to hear a little bit more about your parenting approach and your relationship with your daughters when they were teens and how, how things are.

[00:02:39] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: Yeah, thanks so much real to be here and just honored to speak to your community. Um, so yeah, as you said, I have three daughters, 29, 26 and 24. So I'm grown and flown. And, um, I will say though that the parenting for me at least never really ends it. Just kind of. I have, um, our youngest daughter just moved back home after doing, um, being in school and, um, starting her first jobs down in Tampa, Florida.

[00:03:09] And she decided to move back here for some different opportunities. So it's lovely having her here. We also had them with us during the pandemic. My oldest daughter actually came home. She lives in New York city. So when it all started, I said, yeah, come here. You know, I mean, she'd been out of the house for 10 years and then we had her back with us for 10 months.

[00:03:27] And it was incredible to experience her now as an adult. And, um, I mean, I wouldn't wish a pandemic on the world obviously, but I would not give that time up for anything. So it seemed my parenting approach. So. I am a creator. I'm a theater artist and a visual artist. And so that's kind of what our home and our house is like.

[00:03:49] So they were sort of raised in a very creative environment. And yet I can tell you that there are three very different people. And I often say, Nature and nurture, you know, I can, I can make cases on both sides cause I've got no, I've got three. Um, and I guess the thing that was always most important to me when I was raising them is allowing them to see the world through a creative lens and then understand that in doing that.

[00:04:18] They have the opportunity. They have the right, and they have the responsibility to protect that and to make beautiful lives and see the world in that way. Um, I was always the parent that wouldn't let my kids pick any flowers out of somebody else's flower regarding. Cause I would say, but if you pick that, then nobody else can enjoy it.

[00:04:38] Um, we can enjoy it without picking it. We can look at it, we can study it, we can draw it. We can, you know, and we can pick some of our own if you want to explore. The texture or whatever, you know? Um, but for me being creative was always sort of a worldview and a mindset that went far beyond my own needs or the needs of my children, sort of to the greater, the greater good, my use of creativity for my children and in, um, an education as an educator has always been very, open-ended lots of focus on the process.

[00:05:09] I try not to focus on the product. Um, Problem solving how you're going to use the materials. What do you do if something doesn't turn out the way you like it, um, how are you going to share with somebody else? If you're sharing materials? What if you're collaborating on something? How does that work? So it's all the process and those are the skills that I think really serve us as humans.

[00:05:33] Um, so Albert Einstein said creativity is more important than knowledge. Um, and the reason yep. Love that Albert Einstein and the reason is without creativity, without pre to thinking, without problem solving, without being able to collaborate and see other people's points of view, the knowledge really is.

[00:05:52] Bits of information. You won't know how to use them. Um, and so my message has always been, you know, Hey, give your kids lots of opportunities to be creative. That doesn't always mean it has to be messy with paint. You can be creative in the way you build with blocks. You can be creative in the way you rake the leaves in the yard.

[00:06:13] You can be creative in the way you clean your room or you solve other problems. You know, there's lots of different ways to be creative and all of them. Offer similar opportunities to build your child's capacity, um, because that's, what's going to save them in this fraught world, you know? 

[00:06:32] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Yes. I love that emphasis on process and kind of underscoring that creative.

[00:06:39] Like this, this mindset that informs everything else as opposed to a specific outcome or output. Cause I know that, um, it's just, it just seems like so often when people think about art or they think, you know, they hear creativity, they think artist writer, actor, um, designer. And, and if, if they have a career already in.

[00:07:02] Or in the law like myself, it can feel hard to identify yourself as creative because you're not, you don't have any output that looks like a painting or a drawing or a sculpture. So, so thank you for, um, reinforcing that notion about creativity as an approach. You know, 

[00:07:21] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: to me, if we could all move toward the understanding that creativity doesn't require any specific artistic skill at all, it might serve us really 

[00:07:30] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: well.

[00:07:30] It's a good reminder for all parents, especially as you know, we're, we're pushed to raise our kids to attain certain goals, test scores, et cetera. It's like, you know, it's just a wonderful grounding kind of message to, to receive. Um, so what would you say was your biggest challenge when, when your daughters were in.

[00:07:50] Tween and teen years. 

[00:07:52] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: Yeah. So, I mean like many parents who my three daughters were very different and um, I mean I'm in no way. Perfect. Um, one of the things that I learned is that as a young mother, I thought advocacy for my kids was going in and talking to the principal and talking to the teacher. You know, you've got to change this and you've got to change this.

[00:08:22] And I learned at some point that really advocacy of your children should be around giving them the voice to do that on their own. Even as young children, when you give them the voice to say, I don't understand this, or I'm just, you know, can I do this a different way, or I need this. Um, you know, that's a really powerful gift that you're giving them, uh, the creativity factor helped with that.

[00:08:49] But so that's kind of one thing when I think about, oh, not mistakes, but miss steps, then I would call them. I think there was a time when I thought advocating meant being really involved in, you know, in this and that. Sure. I also, I mean, I've always had opportunities to interact really closely with my kids.

[00:09:05] I've volunteered in their classrooms. We made a lot of theater together. So as they were moving into, you know, middle and onto high school, it's challenging sometimes to watch when they're struggling. And as often as I could, I would try to step back, listen to what was going on for them. And offer advice if asked, you know, um, 

[00:09:32] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I mean, if asked good for you, I mean, I'm still learning that.

[00:09:37] Yeah, 

[00:09:37] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: I know. And I think my kids would probably say, yeah, you didn't listen to as much as you think you do as much as I like to think I did, you know? Um, but I did try to listen and I did try to give them some space. Um, So that they could try to work things through, on their own, um, before kind of jumping in and coming into my white horse, you know?

[00:09:56] Um, so, you know, I guess that's. It was a powerful lesson for me. And I was better at it with, with, you know, with one of them than the others. And you know, this situation, I can say I was successful, but this one not. So, you know, I guess the only thing would be don't beat yourself up. Um, you're going to make mistakes.

[00:10:18] None of them are irrevocable. You know, you can always say I handled that poorly. I'm so sorry. Let's regroup and try it again. Um, but. You know, at some point they start to exert their own path and their own soul and their own personality. And when that isn't what you had hoped it would be or thought it would be or think it would be that's really the time you have to step back and 

[00:10:43] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: just watch.

[00:10:44] I, I feel like, you know, with my daughters and at their tween age, we're kind of, I'm starting to see, um, moments of that, you know, woman's of. Them testing something out or exhibiting certain things that might not be what I would choose. And I find it a little, um, mixed emotions, right? Like I'm simultaneously proud that they are, uh, trying something out or, and then there's also this fear.

[00:11:12] Like it's not what I know, and it's not what I expected or maybe. Maybe had hoped. Uh, so yeah, grappling with that emotionally, especially with three of your own is, um, yeah, that had to be. Challenging. I mean, yeah. 

[00:11:29] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: Yeah. I mean the most important thing for me was always that they knew that they could always come home and that they could always come back here that my husband and I were always here, if they needed to come back to regroup, if they wanted advice, needed advice, if they were working something through.

[00:11:46] Cause I think when those doors close, those are the stores to reopen. You know, I was thinking about. How much parenting has changed over the years? Just like when my kids were young, having a cell phone was a non-issue, they didn't really exist for kids, you know? And I remember very clearly as they were going into middle school, I think I bought one phone for the three of them.

[00:12:09] They had to figure out how to share it, you know? Um, and then eventually we moved on from that, but nowadays it's pretty much a given, you know, and. There are connectivity to social media and their exposure, and the fact that everything is so 

[00:12:21] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: public, it's almost over. I don't want to say requirement, but it's certainly an expectation of young people today.

[00:12:29] Like I I'm in my mid forties, so I don't, I there's like a, definitely an era where everything was private. You had to actively seek out ways to put yourself out there and they were difficult. Like you wrote ezine or you had to put flyers up. Paul's you know, and now yeah, it's, it's, it's a real, you know, twist, uh, in, in how we function.

[00:12:52] I think how yeah. Generate after me are functioning. 

[00:12:56] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: Yeah. Yeah. And so I think teaching them to really, really think before they act is so incredibly important now so much more, my husband always says is that the hill you want to die on, maybe you should, you know, maybe you want. Go ahead and write that email, but maybe you want to sit on it for a day before you send it, or maybe you want to write it, delete it way to do it, write it again, you know, like, because everything is so quick or that tech tedious.

[00:13:28] That's a tremendously important skill, the ability to breathe, breathe, breathe, you know, 

[00:13:36] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: and interestingly, I think that kind of ties into, um, creativity as a mindset as well. Like if you have outlets or if you have ways to approach things in life, um, that feed. And that that sitting and waiting, it feels less painful, you know, because I know I'm a journaler and, uh, you know, I sketch and all those things, they occupy my time when I'm in those stressful moments.

[00:14:05] And I know I need to. Based before taking a next step. So yeah, 

[00:14:10] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: certainly grabbing something that's concrete and hard rather than your phone gives you the opportunity to kind of work some things through. Um, even if you don't realize that's what you're doing before you respond to something, you know, quite often in theater, we're, we're actively seeking to see the other person's point of view because that's where the acting connection happens.

[00:14:29] The character connections and the acting. So being able to listen here and then respond. See, if you get the desired effect, regroup, try again. That's sort of a basic tenant enacting. You maybe are listening first and hopefully you can then step back and see the other person's point of view before you just respond.

[00:14:52] And that's a lesson I'm still learning. I mean, I'm not, again, I'm not saying that I'm perfect at this at all, but being able to, to not respond from a place of fear or a place of anger, a place of misunderstanding, um, I mean, we all know there's so much of that right now, you know, everybody is coming from a place of fear.

[00:15:10] It seems like. So, you know, um, helping your children understand that is critical. You know, 

[00:15:18] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I'd love to wrap up with, um, asking, you know, was there a particular book or resource that you found particularly helpful and you might recommend to moms of tween and teen girls today. 

[00:15:33] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: So the basic school Ernest for years, the basic school is the philosophy that my charter school is based on.

[00:15:38] And it's a very holistic view of life. Um, it's seeing how everything is interconnected. And so like that kind of worldview, um, that includes a healthy dose of. You should spend some time in service to others that it's not all about you. Um, you know, that there is, there's going to be times when I have, when I will be a hundred percent focused on you, there's going to be other times when I'm focusing here.

[00:16:09] And it's not that I forgotten about you. It's just that I have, this is my job right now. And it it's your job to find something to do on your own, you know, um, and how everything fits together. More recently, I've been reading a lot of Bernay brown and yeah, he has lots to say for parents. So I guess I would say if you're reaching for something, maybe start with Brenae brown.

[00:16:31] Um, she's very closely aligned with Ernest Boyer and that kind of world. And the interconnectivity of everything. Cause that's also, you know, the way in which you view the world, that creative way in which you view the world as how everything is somehow connected and your place in that. Um, I think also is what makes us strong adults, you know, you know, and makes us compassionate adults and empathetic adults and understanding that, um, What am I, when am I silly?

[00:16:59] Favorite mantras is be kind, nobody wakes up in the morning and tending to suck. If we can, we can remember that, that everybody starts the day wanting it to be the best day ever. And some days it is great. Other days you struggle, you know? And so to remember, to be kind to each other, um, is. All part of that sort of creative and looking at the world as a beautiful, a beautiful thing with so much beautiful possibility and potential.

[00:17:32] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Yes. I love that. And, and that, they're a part of it. Like they get they're part of this magical, wonderful thing. 

[00:17:39] Melissa Ohlman Roberge: Yeah. You're an integral part of it, you know, you're an important part of it. And you have. I hesitate to say duty, but really you have a duty to participate in, in the world and in the community and to, um, and to understand that your needs are not always paramount, you know, that everybody has needs, you know, that's really important.

[00:18:07] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I am so grateful to Melissa for sharing her stories and her. One of the things I loved hearing was that creativity is more important than knowledge. It's about the process, the skills you build, the way you see the world, not necessarily an end product or the outcome, a few tips. And Melissa had for moms of tweens and teens that also resonated number one, advocacy as a parent is also about giving your kids the voice to do it on their own.

[00:18:35] Give your daughter, the skills and opportunity to speak for herself, your involvement is necessary, but as she gets older, give her the space to be brave and show up for herself. Number two, when your kids are going through their challenges, take a step back, listen and offer advice. If asked number three, don't beat yourself up.

[00:18:57] You're going to make mistakes. None of them are irrevocable. You can apologize and try. Number four, teach your kids to wait and think before they act it's critically important in this day and age, when things are so quick and easy to disseminate, number five, encourage your kids to listen. First here then respond from a place of empathy and greater understanding.

[00:19:22] And number six, teach your kids to spend some time in service to others. There are times when it's not always about. We have a duty to participate in the world and in the community and understand that our individual needs are not always paramount. Everything is interconnected. And lastly, remember be kind, nobody wakes up in the morning intending to do.

[00:19:47] To learn more about Melissa. You can find her on Instagram at M O R creates a link tree URL is also in the show notes, which leads you to her presence on various platforms. So do check it out. Thank you for listening to. I'm truly grateful for your time. If you're enjoying the podcast, make sure you subscribe, tell a friend and leave a review in apple podcasts or Spotify.

[00:20:11] I'd also love to hear what resonated with you from today's episode and whether what other topics you'd like to hear about. So follow at Nobi, raise them on Instagram or look up at Nobi, raised them on. And direct message me to let me know what you think. You can also respond to posts with your feedback or insights.

[00:20:29] Comments are great because I read every one of them. And your thoughts might struck a chord in someone else. Again, thank you for listening and here's to strong women. May we know them? May we be them? And may we raise them?