How to Raise Resilient Kids // with Dr. Kate Lund

[00:00:00] Welcome to know them, be them. Raise them a show to help busy, mindful, growth-oriented moms stay informed and inspired as they navigate their daughter's crucial tween and teen years so they can show up for themselves and their daughters the way they want to. I'm your host, Carmelita Tiu. 

[00:00:19] Today's episode touches on resilience. We've all heard the word, and maybe it conjures up images of people hiking through the wilderness, or enduring some sort of physical hardship or experiencing a huge setback and not giving up. But while we know conceptually what it is, it can be hard to remember how to foster resilience in our kids and in our daily lives.

[00:00:42] That's why I was eager to chat with Dr. Kate Lund, an expert in resilience and author of the book, Bounce Help Your Child Build Resilience and Thrive in School, sports and Life. Kate struggled as a child with a medical condition called hydrocephalus, which made some of the typical activities of [00:01:00] childhood challenging.

[00:01:01] Her parents' unwavering belief in their child. Built an inner resiilence that led to a successful career and life despite her challenges. She worked as a radio reporter while in college and interviewed some notable figures including Barbara Bush and Ivan Lendl, who at the time was the number one tennis player in the world.

[00:01:20] She was also a White House intern for President Bill Clinton as a licensed clinical psychologist. She's worked with major hospitals, schools, and hundreds of parents. Her international bestselling book is the ultimate guide to helping kids build resilience. She's also launched a new podcast called The Optimized Mind, reflecting on what we need to think about in terms of being our best. Kate's mission is to help parents bring out the best in their kids to create the leaders of our future. Here's our chat.

[00:01:54] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Dr. Kate. I'm really excited to have you here to talk about your work and your [00:02:00] book. Thank you so for joining us.

[00:02:02] Kate Lund: Well, thank you for having me. I greatly appreciate it.

[00:02:04] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Let's jump right in. Your book is titled, bounce Help Your Child Build Resilience and Thrive in School, sports and Life, which is like the trifecta of every tween and teen. So I read that and I thought, yes, please. Um, so can we start by talking about what is resilience in your words and why is it important?

[00:02:27] Kate Lund: Sure. . So in my words and in my sort of experience working with so many kids and families over time, Um, and all of us really, because the principles outlined in the book apply actually to all of us across the lifespan, right? These are just foundational for our kids.

[00:02:42] Kate Lund: But resilience is really the ability to move through and beyond challenge. And to do that in a way where you're still able to maximize your potential within your own unique context. And that's sort of a big piece cuz this is not a [00:03:00] one size fits all. You know, everybody's context is different, but short answer, the ability to move through and beyond challenge.

[00:03:07] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I really love how you individualize that, how it's not this metric that we can compare all kids to each other and say, you are more resilient than so and so. It's much more subjective than that.

[00:03:20] Kate Lund: Yes. Much more subjective, much more based on the individual child, their circumstances, what are the challenges they're facing, what are some of the variables perhaps within their own unique context that might make it harder or easier at certain times? And so it's a question of, really knowing our kids and knowing, how to foster that resilience based on who they are and where they are.

[00:03:46] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Would you mind sharing what led you to this space?

[00:03:50] Kate Lund: Sure, absolutely. my, my story as a child, has informed my career path and the focus within that career path for sure. So when I was [00:04:00] four, I was diagnosed with a condition called hydrocephalus, which essentially is when the cerebral spinal fluid isn't circulating as it should, can happen for a range of different reasons.

[00:04:11] Kate Lund: Um, what it essentially means is, you have to have something called a shunt put in surgically, and the shunt will circulate the fluid that's not circulating on its own. And so shunts are great. You know, it, it definitely helps to manage this condition for those of us who have it.

[00:04:27] Kate Lund: But the problem is shunts break. So particularly in childhood, with growth and, you know, all of these different factors and just getting blocked. I was in and out of the hospital a lot from the age of four, through the age of 18, you know, getting shunt revisions and getting various other medical situations related to the shunt handled and managed. 

[00:04:49] Kate Lund: It meant a lot of time in and out of school, looking different than the other kids, not being able to participate in activities like everyone else could or like I would've wanted [00:05:00] to. So really made me kind of stand out as different in a way that wasn't really optimal, and so there was a lot to overcome there. 

[00:05:10] Kate Lund: But I was lucky in that I had great support at home. My teachers seemed to understand and would support me and my friends and my friend's parents, folks in my life really helped me to focus on what I could do as opposed to what I couldn't do.

[00:05:26] Kate Lund: And that was a really, really important piece of helping me sort of move through and beyond each episode because the important thing to, to notice that when, when I was, well, I really was, well, but it was those episodes of medical crisis that really made it challenging. 

[00:05:43] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: You really have kind of both sides of the resilience story. You are able to look at it as an adult, as a researcher, as a psychologist, but you know, and you, you have such a personal and direct experience with what it's like to [00:06:00] be that child , and the importance of what adults around you can do to help support that resilience and, and get you through. I kind of love that connection.

[00:06:09] Kate Lund: Yeah, yeah, there's , definitely a connection and sort of in a global way informs my work. Um, all situations are different. And so when I see a child struggling, I think the thing that I'm able to do now as an adult and as a psychologist is really to help parents to see the strength in their child. See the strengths that can be sort of capitalized and, and maximized in a way that helps that child move towards their potential, despite the challenges that they might be facing. And that sort of applies across domains, you know, medical illness, physical disability, um, learning challenges, any kind of challenge that you can imagine.

[00:06:52] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: So, seeing the strengths in our child, in our children, I guess, um, that's kind of uh, a key factor.[00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Kate Lund: mm-hmm.

[00:07:00] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: how else can parents help their kids, especially tweens and teens that might be experiencing so many emotions and hormone fluctuations. I'm curious if you have advice for parents of kids in that age range?

[00:07:13] Kate Lund: Yeah, absolutely. And it, it's a, it's a tough, tough age range, right? you know, so much going on sort of hormonally and physically and socially and just across the spectrum. So the thing that I believe is so, so important for us who are parenting, teens and tweens, is to really listen to our kids, listen to what they're saying. Validate their experiences at a foundational level, and of course, provide guidance and provide input, particularly when there's something sort of unsavory or difficult going on in terms of behavior. But at a foundational level, really be there and, and give your child the idea that you're hearing what they're saying even if you don't agree. 

[00:07:58] Kate Lund: And again, this [00:08:00] idea of, focusing on strengths, you know, in a way that's not too heavy handed. Encourage them to try new things, move outside of their comfort zone and give them the sense that it's okay to fail, it's okay for things not to work out the first time. In fact, it's probably a good thing because then they can learn to try again and maybe try again from a different angle. And that, I think is a really, really important lesson for us to impart on our children. 

[00:08:33] Kate Lund: And then, One other thing, which I believe is really, really important, um, is to be transparent with your kids about your own struggles. Not in a way that sounds like, well, you think you've got it bad. That's not what I'm talking about at all. But more in a human sense that I hear you, that is a really hard challenge that you're facing. know, these are some of the things I experienced that were also [00:09:00] hard when I was your age and that sort of thing.

[00:09:02] Kate Lund: and I find that, that that transparency, that humanness is very important to share with our kids.

[00:09:09] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I love that idea of reminding our kids that, we're human too, like you said, not to minimize their experience and say oh, wait till you hear my story. But just for them to understand that they're not alone. 

[00:09:23] Kate Lund: Yes. That they're not alone. And that, and to normalize this idea of challenge, because challenge is inevitable for all of us. we're all gonna face challenge in some way or another. And so that piece is very important.

[00:09:36] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Yeah.

[00:09:37] Kate Lund: And then, another piece that I think is important for for parents is to help our children to focus on the process of what they're doing as opposed to the outcome. Because if we can focus on the process, if we can focus on meeting smaller goals along the way, that helps kids to see [00:10:00] where their strengths are. See that you know math in and of itself might be hard. The test might not have gone exactly how they wanted, but the homework assignments, you know, they're getting the material, that sort of thing.

[00:10:14] Kate Lund: So looking at the process as opposed to the outcome

[00:10:17] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Hmm mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . I love that subtle shift because I have heard about that growth mindset. Wanting kids to look at kind of the skills or the process as you mentioned. But I also like what you added, it can help them identify strengths.

[00:10:33] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Like not only are you reducing the stress and the anxiety about. , I didn't get an and the test, or I didn't win the trophy. But in the prioritizing or focus on the process to get there, you might unearth, additional strengths that, 

[00:10:50] Kate Lund: Hmm. 

[00:10:51] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: yeah. That they can celebrate 

[00:10:52] Kate Lund: Right, right. Exactly. And a, an example of this that just happened this past summer in, in our own lives here, is that. [00:11:00] I a 15 year old son and he tried out for the golf team his freshman year at his new high school, it was a really cool experience for him. And he'll tell you this himself like, wow, that was kind of a cool experience.

[00:11:12] Kate Lund: He didn't make the team, but he did something that he had never done before. He went out four days in a row and played four rounds of golf with guys he didn't know, and that was really for him, pushing him out of his comfort zone.

[00:11:26] Kate Lund: He's able to take a step back and kind of see objectively, you know, why he didn't make the team. The scores of the guys who did were that much better. And so he's able to use that as a measuring stick for what he'll have to do, over time to improve his scores if he wants to give it another shot next year. 

[00:11:47] Kate Lund: But he can also step back and say, well, you know, playing with those guys, I didn't know four rounds of golf. Haven't ever done that. That was kind of cool, mom. That was, that was good. And so really [00:12:00] happy for him about that.

[00:12:01] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: That's fantastic. as you were saying, four rounds of golf, four days in a row with people you don't know, I feel like I got anxiety and that,. That would definitely be the win for me is like 

[00:12:14] Kate Lund: Yeah. Yeah. It was a big deal. And so really happy for him on that front. And you know, who knows, he'll have to make the choice if he wants to put in the work, for next year. But you know, we'll see.

[00:12:24] Kate Lund: It doesn't really matter at this point. It's more that piece of the experience that we're holding onto, that he's holding onto, which I'm really glad.

[00:12:31] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Oh, I love it. I love it. Um, you had mentioned in our pre-interview, this idea of believing in yourself, and also being aware of your own context. Do you wanna talk to that a little bit and how that relates to what we've been talking about?

[00:12:47] Kate Lund: Sure, absolutely. Cuz yeah, it's very, very closely related so, kids, particularly tweens and teens can get into this mode of comparing themselves to others and this whole self comparison [00:13:00] and thinking that, you know, my friends got it better than me and they're better at than me at everything, that kind of thing.

[00:13:06] Kate Lund: So, Really helping our kids to focus in through a process of kind of building self-awareness over time and helping them by pointing things out, the things that set them apart. You know, where are their strengths, what makes them special, that kind of a thing. So, so important so they can start to understand and appreciate their own context because we all bring a different story. We all bring different experiences, different strengths, different challenges, that whole piece. And so it's really important to help our kids kind of figure out who they are in time and space. As opposed to comparing themselves to the other kids, their friends who might appear to have it all figured out.

[00:13:54] Kate Lund: But trust me, they don't. It's a process..

[00:13:57] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Right, hmm. And I imagine too [00:14:00] that recognizing the uniqueness of one's own context, also might make space for self-compassion at different points in time. 

[00:14:10] Kate Lund: Yeah, definitely. You know, the ability to understand that things aren't gonna go great every single time, and that's okay. That's even expected, right? And then gives that opportunity to try again, perhaps shift gears and try another angle or another thing. 

[00:14:29] Kate Lund: Maybe we'll discover that we like a different sport or that we're good at singing or who knows, but really helping kids to experiment within their own context with activities or passions is important as well.

[00:14:45] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Hmm. Hmm.

[00:14:46] Kate Lund: And also helping kids to reflect each day on the things that did go well as opposed to just focusing in on the things that didn't go well. Cuz, you know, human [00:15:00] nature takes us in that direction sort of, man, we should have done better. We didn't do well enough. You know, all of those things but really intentionally encouraging our kids to focus on those things that did go well as opposed to those that didn't, will help to neutralize that mindset and will guard against falling into a negative self-talk loop or habit or pattern. 

[00:15:23] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Yes. I love that you mentioned that. the negative thoughts and how we are kind of wired in a way to have them. And so it's important for us as parents and us as individuals to kind of push ourselves to focus on the positive because if we wanna get an accurate picture of our world, um, and our brain is naturally wired to go negative, we sort of have to overcompensate in a way.

[00:15:47] Kate Lund: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. neutralizing that from a baseline or foundational level is, is so important.

[00:15:57] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: It makes me think about when kids are struggling [00:16:00] and they're focusing on the negative. Obviously we wanna help them see insights into what might have been good about the situation. are there other, tips that you might have for parents when their kids are I actually struggling in the moment?

[00:16:15] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Um, or they seem to be letting setbacks kind of define them and stop them from moving forward?.

[00:16:21] Kate Lund: Yeah, I hear ya. You know, giving them space in that moment, you don't wanna kind of jump right in and try to fix it, but really just trying to let them know that you're there to hear the experience, um, and, give a little sort of time and space for some processing. And then when that time and space has happened, perhaps, finding a time for a talk about it, you know, whether out on a walk or in some non-stressful, um, setting to try to unravel that with the kid. And you know, I'm saying this because teens and tweens are developmentally in a place where they're able to [00:17:00] engage in that kind of dialogue and discussion.

[00:17:03] Kate Lund: And you wanna sort of help them to build self-awareness in that way. With younger kids, I wouldn't necessarily be suggesting that kind of a dialogue, but tweens and teens are definitely at that place.

[00:17:15] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: What you said to give them space and then revisit at a later point in time. I feel like I got the chills because that is something I struggle with. I'm someone that I, if there's a problem in front of me, I go into problem solving mode. My brain wants to just fix, fix, fix, and I've really had to work on letting the feelings simmer and letting them process a little bit and waiting till emotions are more regulated before having deeper conversations about what happened? What could we do differently next time? What's, you know, something positive that came out of this? All those things.

[00:17:49] Kate Lund: Yeah, And it's very understandable that you jump into problem solving mode. I mean, I, I do that too, and it's really important to, modulate that and take that [00:18:00] step back, sort of remind ourselves as parents that that's important, to do because otherwise, the risk of shutting our kids down or pushing them away is very real

[00:18:11] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Hmm Is there anything that you'd like to leave with the listeners as we wrap up?

[00:18:18] Kate Lund: you know, I just would say it's not so much a quote, but rather sort of this notion of really believing in your child and believing in their possibility is so, so important you know, kids are unique. Kids are powerful in their own ways and to really, see that in each and every kid is important.

[00:18:40] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Mm. That's such a good reminder. Especially when we have busy lives and I know a lot of people have more than one kid, so it can feel like, you know, just a lot. But recalibrating and resetting and reminding yourself about your faith in your child's potential. That, um, those are some good words [00:19:00] of.

[00:19:00] Kate Lund: Yes. I love that. Faith in your child's potential despite the tough moments. That's fantastic. 

[00:19:07] I love that Kate closed with a reminder of the importance of believing in our kids. Sometimes as a mom, I can get caught up in concern and mostly see the things that could use improving, right? Whether it's in my daughters or in myself. And her words really helped me remember to focus on what's working, what's possible.

[00:19:30] It was a good reminder that even that one thing, believing in our kids, means we're already showing up for them in a real and positive way, and planting the seeds of resilience. 

[00:19:40] Here are my other key takeaways from this episode. 

[00:19:43] Number one, resilience is really the ability to move through and beyond challenge in a way where you're still able to maximize your potential within your own unique context. This means taking into account the individual, their circumstances, the challenges they're facing. What are [00:20:00] some of the variables maybe within their own unique context that might make it harder or easier at certain times? 

[00:20:07] Number two, really listen to what your kids are saying. Validate their experiences at a foundational level. Be there and hear what they're saying, even if you don't agree. Of course, provide guidance and input, particularly when there's something sort of unsavory or difficult going on. But generally try not to jump in and fix things right away. Give them space to process the situation on their.

[00:20:31] Number three, focus on strengths in a way that's not too heavy handed. When I was editing this episode, I heard this and was reminded of when parents can praise sometimes a little too much for one thing, how subconsciously kids can feel like their value is tied to how well they do in that one particular area, or that the affection from their parents is conditioned upon them doing well or being that thing. we wanna make sure that they feel [00:21:00] valued and acknowledged, but we also don't want them to feel like they're, only valued for that one thing. Otherwise, they might start to avoid risks and veered towards perfectionism in that area.

[00:21:11] This leads me to take away number four, which helps to counteract that risk aversion. Encourage kids to try new things, move outside of their comfort zone, make sure they know it's okay to fail, not just in what you say, but in how you treat them. When they fail, they can learn and try again, maybe with a different approach. And this getting back up and trying new ways to solve a problem is really important. 

[00:21:36] Number five, be transparent with your kids about your own struggles. Not in a one upping way, but from a place of empathy. Like, I hear you. That is a really hard challenge. I experienced something similar when I was your age and that sort of thing. 

[00:21:52] Number six, normalize the idea of challenge because challenge is inevitable for all. We're all gonna [00:22:00] face challenges in some way or another, and it's helpful for them to know that this is okay. It's normal. 

[00:22:06] Number seven, focus on the process of what they're doing as opposed to the outcome. This helps kids to see where their strengths are and you can help them by pointing things out that they may not see. For instance, they might bring new ideas into solving a problem or new suggestions as to what you should do as a family. Things like that can help them understand themselves and appreciate their context and capabilities, which can help them navigate challenges with more resilience down the road.

[00:22:35] And number eight, reflect each day on the things that did go well as opposed to just focusing on what could have gone better. Our brains are naturally wired to focus on the negative, so intentionally encouraging our kids to focus on the things that went well and went right can help neutralize that mindset and guard against falling into a negative self-talk loop or pattern.

[00:22:58] To learn more about [00:23:00] Kate, visit kate lund speaks.com. That's k a t e l u n d speaks.com. Check out the Optimized Mind podcast and you can connect with her on LinkedIn. You can also check out her book, bounce Anywhere you might buy books. She's also created a course, the Seven Pillars of the Resilient Child. That link as well as links to her book and website will be in the show notes. 

[00:23:27] Thank you so much for listening. It takes action to claim something and by tuning in you are absolutely showing up for yourself and your daughter and embodying curiosity and a growth mindset .That is so worthy of celebration. And I am so grateful that you're here 

[00:23:42] If you haven't done so already, follow on your favorite podcasting platform. Tell a friend about the show, and leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.

[00:23:51] Also, visit knowberaisethem.com or follow @ knowberaisethem on Instagram. And feel free to leave comments. [00:24:00] DM me, let me know topic ideas, what you think of the show, feedback, et cetera. I love engaging with listeners. Again, I am grateful for your time and here's to strong women. May we know them, may we be them, and may we raise them.

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