Are Your Thoughts Fooling You? Reframing Negative Thoughts & Cognitive Distortions // with Julia Hogan

[00:00:00] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Hello, Al. Welcome to know them at be them. Raise them a show to help busy, mindful, and growth oriented moms stay informed and inspired as they navigate their daughter's tween and teen years with most episodes running 20 minutes or less. I'm your host Carmelita to join me each week. As I talk to experts, authors, therapists, coaches, moms, who've been there and read a curated selection of articles with the author's permission.

[00:00:27] Okay. Be sure to follow or subscribe and follow at. Noby raised them on Instagram. So in this week's episode, Julia Hogan returns with more perspective, shifting talk this time about cognitive distortions and negative thoughts, how to identify them, reframe them and help our tweens and teens do the same.

[00:00:49] As you may recall from previous episodes about self-care and boundaries. Julia is a therapist, author, and speaker with a mission to help people lead fuller and more authentic lives. She's the author of the book. It's okay to start with you published by our Sunday visitor and it's available on Amazon.

[00:01:08] Her next book titled a work in progress. Embracing the life God gave you will be published in spring 2022 links to her website and Instagram are in the show notes. So make sure to check the. So I like so many people struggle at times with negative thinking, which can lead to cognitive distortions and I've witnessed my daughters fall into negative thoughts, virals, and have wondered what to do with them, whether it's I'm terrible at everything, or they'll think I'm stupid telling them that's not true, or honey, you're wrong.

[00:01:43] Isn't quite the right approach. But what is. I asked Julia to shed some light on cognitive distortions, negative thinking and how we can help our daughters understand and navigate them better. Here's that conversation?

[00:02:01] Well, Julia, I'm really so excited and grateful for your generosity or your time and your spirit and your expertise, because your words and your insights have been so helpful to the listeners. 

[00:02:13] Julia Hogan: Thank you so much. That is very gratifying to hear for sure. Um, I think sometimes being an author and I'm sure you experienced this too.

[00:02:22] You put something out there and then you're not really sure. Is it falling on any ears, right. Is anybody hearing this or thinking about it? So hearing that it resonates is, is very meaningful and I'm excited to be back and chat again. We had 

[00:02:34] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: shared some ideas about what, you know, what people might be interested in hearing or what what's been on my mind.

[00:02:41] And one of the things that I'd love to hear more about is cognitive distortions. I know it's kind of a weighty term, but I trust that you can kind of help break it down for us and, and maybe help. Mom's parents understand and see them when their kids are going through them. 

[00:02:59] Julia Hogan: Yes. So cognitive distortions you're right.

[00:03:01] It's a very, uh, intimidating sounding phrase. Oh my gosh. What are these? But really, it's a way of describing these negative thinking patterns that we all have. So every single one of us has them and we'll go into a couple of different types in a second, but. It think of it as like a filter that in a sense, you're falling into a way of thinking about things that is very limiting, but we don't really realize that we're doing it.

[00:03:31] So we think these thoughts, we assume that they're true the way that we're framing them as true. And then we respond accordingly. So being able to identify what your. Cognitive distortion. Like the most common ones that you tend to fall into can be really powerful because then you can catch it and say, oh wait, falling into that again.

[00:03:47] This is how I'm going to reframe that thought and think about it in a different way. Um, so for example, Um, some common ones I'm trying to think. And the ones that are most common in my work with clients, I would say worst case scenario is a really common one. So that would be thinking things like it's never going to work out.

[00:04:09] This is going to be a failure. I'll never be able to communicate to my daughter, all these important things, and she's not going to make it in life and our brain will take it and just extrapolate and keep responding. Right. Um, and so, whereas kissing her is a really common one. Another one is it's called either black and white thinking or all or nothing thinking.

[00:04:30] Either it's all good or it's all terrible. There's no in between, right? There's no room for that kind of idea of both. And that things can be hard and be really right. Either all or nothing. Right. Good or bad. Um, there's also magical thinking, which is assuming that you know, what the other person is thinking, right.

[00:04:51] They're mad at me. They think I'm a terrible person. But you might not have any evidence of that, but that's what your brain goes towards. Oh, oh. So 

[00:05:01] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: yeah, I think so. So, um, so, so kind of maybe pulling in your own fears or anxieties when there's no actual evidence that this is what the other person is thinking, or this is what might transpire.

[00:05:15] Okay. Yeah. 

[00:05:16] Julia Hogan: Yeah. So magical thinking or even mind reading, you might hear it being called, like assuming I know what the other person thinks regardless. The information at hand, um, another common one would be personalizing things. So assuming everything's about you. So a good example of that is like, if you've ever gone to the gym and you think, oh my gosh, everybody's looking at me.

[00:05:41] They see the low speed I have on the treadmill, or, you know, they see that I have a low incline and they're all judging me because I can't. This amount of weight or run this distance, right? Everybody's thinking, what is she doing here? So just assuming that everybody's focusing and you can see how all of these things, it's choosing this particular way of interpreting what's happening to you.

[00:06:03] And then you're responding accordingly, right? If you're thinking the worst is going to happen, then your actions are going to be as if the worst is going to happen. Right. If you're assuming. I'm giving this presentation and all of these people don't even want to hear what they have to say. They're going to be judging me.

[00:06:22] No, one's going to be interested than I go up there. Believing all those eyes on me are, would rather be anywhere else. And then I'm feeling intimidated. I might start tripping over my words even more or lose my train of thought. Right? The most empowering thing about negative thinking patterns is that once you recognize them and you have an awareness of.

[00:06:42] They're very easy to change. That's the beautiful thing it's like, once you, once you've got that awareness going, then you're just, you can just identify them and rescue them. 

[00:06:54] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Wow. So how do we do that? Like I, you know, cause as you were taking through like black and white thinking and personalizing things, I can see instances in myself when I tend to do that.

[00:07:05] Like I'm walking down or at the checkout counter and the cashier seems a little. Grumpy or upset. And I think, oh, they don't like me somehow. Somehow I must have done something. Or maybe they don't like the way I look or, and, um, yeah. I, and I love hearing that it's easy to change. So yeah, once we start to identify these things in ourselves or in our daughters, what are the best ways to go about kind of taking away?

[00:07:37] Julia Hogan: Yeah, for sure. I think for, like I said, the first step is awareness and so kind of discovery. And you can, if you just search on the internet, most common, negative thinking patterns or cognitive distortions, you'll see, you'll see like a list of probably 10 or more. And they might all have slightly different names.

[00:07:57] Um, but it, the names don't really matter as much, but, um, reggae kind of identifying what are the ones that you tend to. To fall into. Um, and then what are the signs that you are thinking in that way? So for example, another one is the shirts, right? Where I could be a better mom. I should be able to do all of this.

[00:08:20] My daughter should feel like she can come to me and share any. No matter what, and, but setting these expectations again, that we have to meet and when we don't meet them, it's a sign of failure for us. Right. So recognizing for you those little, I guess you could call them tells, you know, like, oh, when I use the word, should I know I'm probably falling into one of those cognitive distortions.

[00:08:43] So that's a sign for me that I need to take a step back and reflect. And so the ways that you can go about making a shift is thinking. Okay. When I have this thought, you know, it can be helpful to write it out as well. Like this is my thought, you know, for example, um, I'll never be a good mom or whatever.

[00:09:03] It's a pretty good, like worst case scenario. I'm a terrible mom. Um, and so writing that out and then basically what you want to do is you want to pretend like you're on the debate team. And think about what information do I have that proves this as true. So what information out there proves that I'm a terrible mom and then hop on the other side of the debate team and what information out there proves that I'm not a terrible mom and the most important thing with that is you cannot go on your feelings, right?

[00:09:37] So you can't say, I feel like a bad mom, or you feel like my daughter hates me. Right? You have to say, I. I forgot to pack her lunch for school. Right. And you write that down and then when you see it, you think, well, that doesn't mean him, terrible mom. Right? I'm skipping ahead. A few steps, but focusing on the facts of the situation, right back to reality, what are things that have happened?

[00:10:00] What are things that people have said that I can point to and say concretely objective. This goes under the column, most proving this thought it's true, or this close under the column of proving this thought isn't true. And I think what's helpful to think about is sometimes I use this visualization with my clients.

[00:10:18] I'll say, imagine you're. Uh, courtrooms. Right. And the judges bench is I always visited it like super high and imposing, right. This dark wood and this judge sort of peering over and saying, well, what evidence do you have that you're a terrible mom. And then you are there. And you're saying, I feel like I'm not good at what I do.

[00:10:37] Right. Is the judge gonna accept that as cold, hard evidence? I don't think right. They're going to say, go back, come back to me when you have the facts, right. Prove to me factually that these things. So when you sit down and you write out these two opposing viewpoints and the facts that support them it's will become very apparent that the negative thought you're having can't be true because you don't have the evidence for that.

[00:11:03] And I will tell you like 99.9, 9% of the time that negative thinking pattern thought is not true. And so by, by making that contrast, you can. Give yourself the opportunity to reframe the thought into something that's accurate and based on facts. Right? So you might say something like it's, I find it really challenging to be a mom.

[00:11:28] And then sometimes I'm not able to do the things I wish I could do, but I also know that I'm doing the best to provide for my daughter, or these are some ways that I'm really proud of that I've been passing. That's down to her, responding to her and then this way. And, you know, even if there are moments where I dropped the ball or whatever, I'm really proud of the things that I've done that feels so much more balanced, right.

[00:11:50] It's allowing room for nuance. It's letting you be able to say I don't have to be perfect to be a good mom, for example, but I can, I can make mistakes, but it doesn't mean that I'm terrible and the worst mom ever, it just means that I'm a human 

[00:12:04] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: being right. As you were speaking, I could kind of, I I've heard myself.

[00:12:09] I've I've I see myself in your descriptions, right? Like where I think I'm a terrible mom or I suck at this and then, you know, take a few steps back and walk through what actually are the facts here. And I just love that mental picture you gave to the judge and, and, you know, with my legal background, it's done.

[00:12:30] Uh, completely true, like feelings and assumptions do not fly. So literally it's, it's almost like let's mirror that process of only look to facts to, you know, help you determine whether or not this thought is true. 

[00:12:47] Julia Hogan: Well, and I think it's important to know it's in the beginning, it's a lot harder to catch.

[00:12:54] Reframe those thoughts in the beginning, it's a lot of looking back and reflecting and saying, oh, I see what I did there. And this is how I could have done it differently because sometimes I use the analogy of a negative thinking patterns. Like we all have them and it's almost like being on like this, I don't know, like eight lane highway with no speed limit or you can be in the express lane or the HOV lane and just go, it's easy.

[00:13:17] It's convenient. We're used to it. Right. But going and reframing those thoughts is more like you're taking. Uh, you're going off roading, right? You're paving a totally new way of thinking about, so in the beginning you are like clearing away the brush and you're driving your car and it's bumpy and it's not easy, but over time it should become more and more like a one lane highway and then a two lane highway.

[00:13:38] Right. And keep expanding where you, your brain will more easily go towards, um, that more balanced way of thinking. But it's training your brain, right? It's training your brain and how you talk about yourself and other people and how you think about. 

[00:13:53] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Yeah, one thing that I'm so glad you mentioned that you have to train your brain and that it might feel unnatural and hard and awkward.

[00:14:03] At first with both of my girls, when they may fall into one of these negative thought patterns or negative self-talk, um, taking a step back and telling yourself feelings, aren't facts and trying to come up with those lists of things that, you know, may or may not be. Those thoughts, negative thoughts to be true.

[00:14:23] I feel sometimes like I'm forcing them to do something that they're really like reluctant to do. I now feel confident, reassuring them that this is going to feel weird because this is not what your brain is used to. Um, and that's okay. And just accept that. It feels weird. This is still the approach that will ultimately lead to your highest benefit, you know?

[00:14:47] Cause I think sometimes any sort of resistance. Like exercise, maybe it doesn't always feel good at first, even though maybe conceptually, we know that it's the right thing to do. So something in our bodies is like, this is hard, this hurts. Isn't it better if I just stick to what's easy, even if it's not good for you.

[00:15:08] Um, 

[00:15:09] Julia Hogan: yeah. Familiar, but maybe not comfortable, but familiar. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:14] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Familiar. Yeah. So I I'm curious. Like, how, how do you suggest that we encourage our daughters or kids to do something different without making them feel wrong? Because I know that I might skid into this territory where suddenly in addition to whatever, now that negative self-talk, they're giving themselves, they're also feeling like, you know, I must be doing something wrong because mom's making me do things I don't want to do, you know, or she's telling me I need to change.

[00:15:45] Yeah. 

[00:15:47] Julia Hogan: I mean, I think if you, when you are practicing this for yourself and then you also have a greater, I think, compassion for what it's like to fall into these negative thinking patterns. And I think then to come and approach your daughters from that standpoint of being able to say. I know, it feels like this is the end of the world and I get it.

[00:16:11] Like I get how scary it feels when you think that. Well, let's take a moment and see if there's some other alternatives. Like, is this the only way we need to go? Like, is this our only option? And yeah, of course they might roll their eyes and say, oh my gosh, like, why is she giving to this? Right. But I think you're helping give them the gift of these skills.

[00:16:30] That you know, us as adults, we're learning now. Right. And we're looking back and saying like, why, why didn't I learn these things in school? Why didn't anybody tell me here? I was nervous about my exams and I didn't have the, I didn't even know what a cognitive distortion was. Right. Or whatever. So passing those life skills on to that become invaluable to be able to say, I also know what it feels like to be terrified when I say that I'm gonna fail this test when I go to school or my friends are going to hate me.

[00:17:00] If I, uh, you know, don't go over like do a sleepover or whatever. Right. Um, but to have someone there has to be that I, that person who can lend an objective lens when they're still learning right. To be there and to say, I guess your friends could hate you, but I think there's a lot of evidence that maybe they won't like I'm remembering this time or I'm thinking of this time.

[00:17:25] What do you think about that? You know, where it's more of a dialogue versus a no, that's not true. Here's how you're wrong. Or tell me all the reasons you're wrong. It's like, whoa, I'm don't know how to do that. Or I'm feeling that. My mom's yelling at me because I'm saying I'm nervous. Right. So validating the initial feeling and then creating that I think imitation to be more like exploratory, I guess, because they're so sensitive at that age.

[00:17:54] Right. Have so much like, oh, how could you say that to me, mom? Or, you know, like forcing her to say, so you are always feeling like you're treading lightly. 

[00:18:05] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: You know, it makes me think about. I like, I have this visual in my head of like, there, if you're, if you have my kid being kind of like in mud or in quicksand and, and we have to be willing to step into it for a little bit to reach them and help them get out.

[00:18:27] And I have to say, I know I'm not the best of that. I'm sure I'm not the only person that's like this, but I, I think I was raised with a little bit of discomfort around big feelings and, and it takes acknowledging your, your child's, your daughter's tween teams, big feelings in order to help them process and move forward in a positive way.

[00:18:51] Um, Anyhow. I was just kind of thinking through that in real time with you that's yeah, 

[00:18:56] Julia Hogan: no, I think that's a great point because I think when you're doing your own work, it's so valuable because then as you learn about yourself, you can also pass those tools and skills along to your daughters. I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations about how feelings.

[00:19:14] Bad things, right. That there's a lot of, I shouldn't feel this way. I should be happy. I shouldn't feel guilty or whatever. And so it can be really, I think, helpful to reframe thinking about emotions as information. A lot of people find that really helpful. Like, um, excuse me, emotions are neutral, right? They are like the tell for how we're interpreting or experiencing something.

[00:19:42] How'd that invitation to decide how to respond to it. Right. And so we can either say my emotions, just run the show, or we can say, okay, this is information telling me how I'm experiencing what's going on. And so now I have this, this freedom to choose how I want to respond to it. And that's very empowering too.

[00:20:01] So I think thinking about emotions, it is, I mean, this is probably a discussion that we could have all, all day or maybe for like a week just to. You know how our society talks about emotions. And I think for women in general, like being emotional as seen as really negative, or there can be family expectations that are passed down, you know, from our parents.

[00:20:21] So unpacking all of that and understanding that is, is important. It's complicated, but it's important because it allows you to be able to when your child is experiencing big emotion, to be able to say, this is okay, Her way of communicating how she's experiencing what's going on. And so we can use that to then figure out how we want to respond.

[00:20:52] Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: I thought there were several good nuggets of wisdom here to recap the key takeaways. Number one, cognitive distortions are ways of describing negative thinking patterns that we have some common ones. Worst case scenario thinking, which is also known as catastrophizing, where we automatically jump to the worst thing that could happen.

[00:21:12] And it causes anxiety all or nothing thinking where based on one bit of info, we think something is all good or all bad. And there's no in-betweens magical thinking or mind reading where we assume we know what others, I think. Personalizing where everything is about you. Such as everyone's looking at me sheds, which is setting expectations that we feel we have to meet.

[00:21:35] And then when we don't, it's a sign of failure. As a side note, there are others that are widely recognized. I'll include a full list in the show notes, or you could Google cognitive distortions to find more. Uh, second takeaway. Once you recognize cognitive distortions, they're relatively easy to change with practice to make a shift.

[00:21:56] It helps to write it out. Whatever your negative thought is, then list out what facts do you have that make this true or false? And they have to be facts. Pretend you're presenting a case in front of a courtroom where only facts are accepted the vast majority of the time. You'll see that your negative thought wasn't.

[00:22:16] Number three training. Your brain can be hard reassure your daughter, that it can feel hard and uncomfortable to do this exercise that will help set her expectations. Number four, it can be helpful to reframe emotions. As information emotions are neutral. They are the tell for how we're emotionally experiencing something.

[00:22:39] Then we can choose how to respond to that in. I loved that kind of distancing from what feelings are and not saying they're good or bad, just acknowledging that they are a bit of information that helps us navigate where we want to go next, a big thanks to Julia for her insights and practical tips on how to manage negative thinking and cognitive disorders.

[00:23:02] To learn more about Julia, you can visit Julia Marie Hogan dot com or follow her on Instagram at Julia Hogan LPC. Those links will be in the show notes as well. And I'll also link to her two previous episodes of know them, be them, raise them. One is about boundaries and the other is about self care and authentic.

[00:23:21] Uh, heartfelt. Thanks for listening. I know you get to choose how you spend your time. And again, I am honored and humbled to share a portion of your day with you. If you found something helpful or insightful, remember to subscribe or follow, tell a friend and leave a review on apple podcasts and Spotify.

[00:23:37] If you can, if you're on Instagram or Facebook, follow at Noby, raise them or facebook.com/noby. Raise them or inspirational. Tips and reminders to help you show up for yourself and your daughter, the way you want to and feel free to DM me on either of those platforms. Again, I'm grateful for you and here's to strong women.

[00:23:57] May we know them? May we be them? And may we raise them?